Mitchell Marsh will miss the remaining two matches due to ankle injury.
Sean Williams will return to Zimbabwe’s XI for tomorrow’s second ODI, but Blessing Muzarabani is unlikely to play this tour, says coach Dave Houghton.
Discussion
AUSTRALIA VS ZIMBABWE / 2nd ODI/ 31 August 2022
Discussion
Show flagship post
ZCF OriginalLegend
You could also tell from the commentary and some of the set ups that they 100% got video on every single one of our players and have a plan for all of them. Very very professional and clinical unit. Watch them set Williams up rough on Saturday. It definitely didn't feel like that against India
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:59 am
zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:33 am
Other than his two wickets, unsure Ngarava offered much to the attack. Evans looked far more dangerous and was unlucky not to get a wicket or two.
I think our batting will always be an issue as long as our players have decided that they are more about preserving their wicket, rather than playing their game. You can see they get angsty about not scoring, so they either cower or they try to play big shots.
They really need to work on their tactical aspects. Feet movement, standing straight, playing with a straight bat. Break them down to basics.
Considering he has played 24 ODIs, Wessley should really have at least 1 century to his name. I don't want him or Marumani to fall into the bracket of being players who had talent, but didn't do anything with it.
Thats some real high expectations. Even root took 25 odis to make his first century
Root wouso have had 6 centuries if he spent all his time against afg, ban, Ireland, Scotland etc
Member actions
ShareLegend
ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:24 am
slcricfan1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:59 am
zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:33 am
Other than his two wickets, unsure Ngarava offered much to the attack. Evans looked far more dangerous and was unlucky not to get a wicket or two.
I think our batting will always be an issue as long as our players have decided that they are more about preserving their wicket, rather than playing their game. You can see they get angsty about not scoring, so they either cower or they try to play big shots.
They really need to work on their tactical aspects. Feet movement, standing straight, playing with a straight bat. Break them down to basics.
Considering he has played 24 ODIs, Wessley should really have at least 1 century to his name. I don't want him or Marumani to fall into the bracket of being players who had talent, but didn't do anything with it.
Thats some real high expectations. Even root took 25 odis to make his first century
Root wouso have had 6 centuries if he spent all his time against afg, ban, Ireland, Scotland etc
Thats fair. But heaps of caveats to that which Sz has not even begun to talk about. ANd anyway this is Joe root, probably the best batter in the world atm barring Babar maybe. Point is, will take a while and a lot of experience for Wes to make centuries in the current climate unfortunately. If he can somehow beat the odds, kudos to him though. But many talented players have been unable to do that. Not many great young batters in world cricket outside of the big 3.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
It highlights the need to up our match numbers against the big boys.
Who cares if we win a series against Ireland.
The boys also need the world stage to put their foot forward for IPL gigs and what not.
Who cares if we win a series against Ireland.
The boys also need the world stage to put their foot forward for IPL gigs and what not.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:34 am
It highlights the need to up our match numbers against the big boys.
This. It's so tough to step up to this level suddenly. If we don't play India or Australia regular in the coming years, then we'll be in exactly the same situation on the very rare occasion we do next play them in the year 2133.
If we played this quality of opposition every year I'm sure we'd see some sustained improvement over time.
I'm not excusing todays performance because it was beyond rubbish and not good enough. We should be at the level of the 3rd Indian game and the 1st Australia game already. But we aren't going to be consistently doing that or even winning games if we only play a top quality team once every five years.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
Those two shots down the ground from Regis were lovely. It continues to mystify me how this guy doesn't average 35+. Good technique, plenty of experience, works as hard as anyone by all accounts, is a smart educated guy, always looks good when he is out there.....until he randomly gets out.
How he hasn't scored more runs through his career is the biggest mystery of all.
How he hasn't scored more runs through his career is the biggest mystery of all.
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalLegend
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:06 am
You can't have it both ways though. If you are discounting Bangladesh, Ireland and Afghanistan.... then Wes has only played 9 ODIs. You can't count them for one player and not the other.
Also theres another point there. Our guys just aren't used to facing this quality. It's pretty tough ask to come from facing club-level attacks in Zim and occasionally facing Bangladesh and Ireland, to then suddenly be playing India and Australia 6 times in 2 weeks. The step up is massive, seems pretty unrealistic to expect that step up to just happen - for any players anywhere in the world. It's like your post earlier in the thread saying our guys probably just come out and ignore the coaches and do whatever they want. I get the sentiment and understand your frustration and I've probably posted lots of similar things in match threads tbf. But obviously they do listen to coaches and they do try. Most if not all of this current squad are pretty switched on and seem like decent people that are playing for Dave and doing their best. There is a massive gulf in quality between us/ireland etc and teams like Australia in their home conditions. It's bloody tough.
It doesn't excuse today though.
I'd expect results like the first game, where one or two show signs with the bat and we take a handful of wickets and at least be half-competitive for some of the game. Today wasn't good enough, but it happens. I'm sure they'll learn and will come out better in the third game.
I'm not discounting them, I'm merely stating that Wes has faced somewhat easier opposition than Joe did, hence that Wes has had perhaps an easier start to his ODI career than Joe did.
Yes there are the Rashid Khans and the like, but Wes has had quite a bit of time to develop his trade in this time, yet we are seeing simple errors still in his game. Yes the step up in opposition is noticeable, but that does not mean that you should still be doing the same things that you were doing in game 1. A player should be maturing and developing their game through their games.
It's not only Wes, and I'm not picking on him. All of our players should not be making the same mistakes over and over, particularly those who have been around for a while, regardless of the opposition. I can understand being beaten fair by a Starc and the like, but throwing away ones wicket is a different story.
ZIMDOGGY wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:34 am
It highlights the need to up our match numbers against the big boys.
Who cares if we win a series against Ireland.
The boys also need the world stage to put their foot forward for IPL gigs and what not.
It's all well and good saying this, but as the calendar becomes more saturated, big teams are only going to want to play big teams, especially if when they do play the small teams, the matches are not nearly competitive enough. Big teams will either just end up playing 2nd string squads.
It's a catch 22 because playing the big teams helps improve the standard but also not currently competitive enough to play the big teams. ICC screwed up on this big time, and ZANU screwed up Zim
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
He's in the same boat as a lot of decent looking Zim batsmen- Vusi and Hamilton being the most recent and obvious examples. They look great, have decent techniques, get starts, and suddenly they're inexplicably trudging back to the hut.
Theyre not alone, the batting world is awash with talented guys that can't kick on, that's why guys tape bats to the walls of change rooms and have lucky hyena foot charms hanging round their necks because nobody really understands why they would suddenly play a s**t shot out of nowhere and guys like Root and Babar don't seem to.
Theyre not alone, the batting world is awash with talented guys that can't kick on, that's why guys tape bats to the walls of change rooms and have lucky hyena foot charms hanging round their necks because nobody really understands why they would suddenly play a s**t shot out of nowhere and guys like Root and Babar don't seem to.
Member actions
ShareLegend
We are missing ervine and muzarabani badly.
Think evans fluffed his lines a little with new ball. When muzarabani is back he will share mantle with ngarava. Evans goes back to first change.
Ervine is pretty good at seeing off new ball. His 30s against afghanistan was testament to this when the ball was swinging wildly and predegiously.
People have mentioned shumba as missing in action and sure he is a good young upcoming player but he doesnt really strengthen the side apart from having more options.
Think evans fluffed his lines a little with new ball. When muzarabani is back he will share mantle with ngarava. Evans goes back to first change.
Ervine is pretty good at seeing off new ball. His 30s against afghanistan was testament to this when the ball was swinging wildly and predegiously.
People have mentioned shumba as missing in action and sure he is a good young upcoming player but he doesnt really strengthen the side apart from having more options.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
Today's game just made me think that if this is what we are going to get from Zimbabwe 7/10 times against top boys then what exactly is the point of playing the 50 over WC? I'm sure Afghanistan will do better.
On the other hand WI, SL, Ban will at least be able to compete and cause some upsets.
ICC sucks, but then these kind of results justify a 10 team WC. No one wants to see such a pathetic contest in a world event. Not this modern generation.
We can talk all day about lack of fixtures, lack of fixtures against top teams etc. But the harsh truth is that no one is going to give you the fixtures just for charity. No one. It is pure business.
The only way you get fixtures is by performing. At least be competitive. Like it or not but Afghanistan and Ireland have pretty much the same kind of fixtures but they often punch above their weight when ever they play the big boys. That's one reason why Ireland these days are respected more than Zimbabwe in cricketing circle.
Sorry guys, I don't want to sound harsh, but this was terribly disappointing for me. If you are telling me that the likes of Munyonga are international cricketers, then I'm sorry but they are not. These players if they are turning up for the national team then they should at least be up for it. This was embarrassing like the first two ODIs against India.
On the other hand WI, SL, Ban will at least be able to compete and cause some upsets.
ICC sucks, but then these kind of results justify a 10 team WC. No one wants to see such a pathetic contest in a world event. Not this modern generation.
We can talk all day about lack of fixtures, lack of fixtures against top teams etc. But the harsh truth is that no one is going to give you the fixtures just for charity. No one. It is pure business.
The only way you get fixtures is by performing. At least be competitive. Like it or not but Afghanistan and Ireland have pretty much the same kind of fixtures but they often punch above their weight when ever they play the big boys. That's one reason why Ireland these days are respected more than Zimbabwe in cricketing circle.
Sorry guys, I don't want to sound harsh, but this was terribly disappointing for me. If you are telling me that the likes of Munyonga are international cricketers, then I'm sorry but they are not. These players if they are turning up for the national team then they should at least be up for it. This was embarrassing like the first two ODIs against India.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:29 am
ICC sucks, but then these kind of results justify a 10 team WC.
No, you got it the wrong way round.
10 team WC (and more significantly the general big 3 approach and total inability and lack of desire to grow the game at all in any direction) produces these kinds of results.
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
Well, not specifically this result. Because for sure our boys underperformed compared to their own abilities today. And 20 years of disastrous governance both within cricket and the country hasn't helped etc etc etc.
But again if we were playing top class teams consistently every year, I'm absolutely certain we would see some improvement at some point.
But again if we were playing top class teams consistently every year, I'm absolutely certain we would see some improvement at some point.
Member actions
ShareLegend
We didn't even get 50 overs of cricket today 😑😑.
At least in first ODI we had almost 80 and it was a reasonable level of competitiveness
We tanked badly this game.
At least in first ODI we had almost 80 and it was a reasonable level of competitiveness
We tanked badly this game.
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
I'm surprised people expected more. I think we over-performed expectations in the first ODI and then came back to reality in the second ODI. Even in the glory days of the Flowers, Streak, etc Zimbabwe have produced some pretty shocking performances in Australia - getting bowled out for 126 in 2004 for example.
We are so much further behind the cricketing world now and the gap is only getting bigger. We don't even have talent coming through that is as good as Williams, Raza, Ervine, etc, and as much as we love those guys, they have proven to not really be consistent performers against top shelf opposition.
We are so much further behind the cricketing world now and the gap is only getting bigger. We don't even have talent coming through that is as good as Williams, Raza, Ervine, etc, and as much as we love those guys, they have proven to not really be consistent performers against top shelf opposition.
My All-time Zimbabwe XI
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Neil Johnson, Brendan Taylor, Murray Goodwin, Andy Flower (w), David Houghton, Sean Williams, Heath Streak (c), Andy Blignaut, Paul Strang, Eddo Brandes, Blessing Muzarabani
Member actions
ShareZCF Hall of Famer
What you may lack in ability (and you're comparing yourself to the best players on the planet), this is a game where sheer determination and will to win can take you a long way.
That Flower era had guys that would not lie down, we lack that calibre of player now. I don't know what sparks that?
One leader who says- let's fight for our lives and not give an inch, and players follow him, perhaps?
That Flower era had guys that would not lie down, we lack that calibre of player now. I don't know what sparks that?
One leader who says- let's fight for our lives and not give an inch, and players follow him, perhaps?
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:48 am
sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:29 am
ICC sucks, but then these kind of results justify a 10 team WC.
No, you got it the wrong way round.
10 team WC (and more significantly the general big 3 approach and total inability and lack of desire to grow the game at all in any direction) produces these kinds of results.
The ICC has only gone to a 10 team world cup in the past few years...these types of results have been going on for decades.
But again if we were playing top class teams consistently every year, I'm absolutely certain we would see some improvement at some point.
The Houghton era is still very early, and the signs have been fairly positive. But historically speaking, this doesn't make much sense. Its been about 10 years of consistently playing the Ireland/Afghanistan level of teams, and the graph there hasn't gone up at all over 10 years and a lot of games. In fact its arguably gone down considering Zimbabwe used to win a couple of games vs AFG per series but recently got blanked. The top level of 3-4 teams is a very harsh environment, you don't get better simply by playing a lot of matches. Its way more grassroots than that. If it was so simple, teams like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh would be top 5 teams by now. No team plays more against top 8 opposition than Sri Lanka in the past decade, they are still bottom of the pile in the top 8.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
Member actions
ShareLegend
Kriterion_BD wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:56 pm
secretzimbo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:48 am
sam_ahm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:29 am
ICC sucks, but then these kind of results justify a 10 team WC.
No, you got it the wrong way round.
10 team WC (and more significantly the general big 3 approach and total inability and lack of desire to grow the game at all in any direction) produces these kinds of results.
The ICC has only gone to a 10 team world cup in the past few years...these types of results have been going on for decades.
But again if we were playing top class teams consistently every year, I'm absolutely certain we would see some improvement at some point.
The Houghton era is still very early, and the signs have been fairly positive. But historically speaking, this doesn't make much sense. Its been about 10 years of consistently playing the Ireland/Afghanistan level of teams, and the graph there hasn't gone up at all over 10 years and a lot of games. In fact its arguably gone down considering Zimbabwe used to win a couple of games vs AFG per series but recently got blanked. The top level of 3-4 teams is a very harsh environment, you don't get better simply by playing a lot of matches. Its way more grassroots than that. If it was so simple, teams like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh would be top 5 teams by now. No team plays more against top 8 opposition than Sri Lanka in the past decade, they are still bottom of the pile in the top 8.
We have improved though lol. We just beat Australia at home. And anyway we have famously gone through transition. Up until 2015 we were pretty alright. Then Sanga, Mahela, Dilshan, Malinga, Kulasekera etc retired. Our recent outfits have largely only been together since what 2020? And there's been pretty significant improvement. More games mean more experience. One win against a good side and all of a sudden confidence shoots up. Zim were so bloody close during that India series. What SZ is saying makes sense.
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalLegend
I get the idea that playing top teams needs to be more consistent, however the argument can also be made that we play AFG quite a bit yet continue to struggle against them, whilst they continue to improve.
They are not really playing top teams in bilateral series that often as well. A lot of their players made their mark in T20 comps and have improved, hence they have kept earning contracts and playing at a high level.
It's an easy excuse, but it's also a slightly lame excuse. If you want to improve your talent and quality, you also invest in grassroots and domestic competitions, and make a serious effort to ensure that the quality of competition provided for the teams and the level of coaches is high.
Our current bowling coach is Njabulo Ncube. That does not instill much confidence in our bowling set up.
They are not really playing top teams in bilateral series that often as well. A lot of their players made their mark in T20 comps and have improved, hence they have kept earning contracts and playing at a high level.
It's an easy excuse, but it's also a slightly lame excuse. If you want to improve your talent and quality, you also invest in grassroots and domestic competitions, and make a serious effort to ensure that the quality of competition provided for the teams and the level of coaches is high.
Our current bowling coach is Njabulo Ncube. That does not instill much confidence in our bowling set up.
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalZCF Hall of Famer
zimbos_05 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:50 pm
I get the idea that playing top teams needs to be more consistent, however the argument can also be made that we play AFG quite a bit yet continue to struggle against them, whilst they continue to improve.
They are not really playing top teams in bilateral series that often as well. A lot of their players made their mark in T20 comps and have improved, hence they have kept earning contracts and playing at a high level.
It's an easy excuse, but it's also a slightly lame excuse. If you want to improve your talent and quality, you also invest in grassroots and domestic competitions, and make a serious effort to ensure that the quality of competition provided for the teams and the level of coaches is high.
Our current bowling coach is Njabulo Ncube. That does not instill much confidence in our bowling set up.
The funny thing is, I think the perception of Afghan is that they are better than they really are. Not saying they are a poor side, but I'm not ready to say they are are a great side either. On the other hand, their achievements are still impressive for a country that just picked up a bat or ball a mere 15 or so years ago. But, the crucial point will be where do the Afghans go from here, ie how much progress will they make in the next 10 years?
Did some stats digging, and surprisingly or perhaps not surprisingly, Bangladesh have a slightly better record than Afghanistan in T20Is against the historically established 8 teams (E8 or G8 sides) since 2015.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ;type=team
In ODIs against the E8/G8, Afghanistan are quite poor...being only marginally ahead of Zimbabwe.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ;type=team
Interestingly Bangladesh are 6th, well ahead of even Pakistan. This might be because PAK plays more games against the top 4-5 sides than Bangladesh. Nope, just checked vs the top 5 teams, and while the gap narrows, Bangladesh are still just ahead of Pakistan.
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ;type=team
Pakistan finally overtake Bangladesh vs the top 5, in away/neutral venues, but not by a huge margin:
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... ;type=team
So in conclusion, Afghanistan are a much better T20 side than an ODI side, but even in T20s, they are basically at the Bangladesh/Sri Lanka level.
Bangladesh cricket fanatic, observer of all others.
Member actions
ShareZCF OriginalLegend
Afghanistan are probably going to try crack some test matches now to get more attention. Their first task will be to demolish us in December. Their fast bowlers are quite good now so we might be in trouble. Will be an interesting series
Member actions
Share